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Topic: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Topic: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

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OhioCatFan
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Member Since: 12/20/2004
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Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/10/2026 11:20:35 AM

Below is a post from MACBBS.

Post: #125RE: MAC MBB Coaching Vacancies

Just posting an informational article that concerns the MAC.

https://herosports.com/cbb-john-groce-bi...eeze-ksks/

Portion fron the article above:

"Groce is stepping into a very winnable conference at a school that appears willing to invest at a higher level than many of its peers. Meanwhile, in the MAC, there is a growing sense that a line is forming between programs that are doubling down on men’s basketball and those that are not. As one MAC head coach put it, “There is a distinct line forming of those competing and those not in our league.”

That last line has left me wondering at our current rate where we will end up in this bifurcated MAC. At the moment we are in the top five or six, but unless we ante up and start putting the resources into the program like Miami, WMU and Toledo are reported to be doing, we could be in the initial phases of a decline into MAC obvilion. I don't want that to happen. As alumni we need to step up and try to help our athletic program. I'm not in a position to make a "transformative gift," but I can up my contributions, but there needs to be some coordination from the AD's office to facilitate increased giving for athletics on a board scale among alumni. I know the general rule in fundraising is to go after the big gifts first, but I think this situation may require a more grassroots approach.

Also, if we are truly heading toward a bifurcated MAC, this brings up questions of realignment. Should the top schools leave and setup a new conference with some other schools? Or, should the top schools attempt to drop the others from the conference? Or, will the low-level schools drop out of their own accord when they just can't compete? Tangentially related is that another poster on the MACBSS speculated that one reason Groce left for Charleston was speculation that he knew the next governor was planning to renew calls for the absorption of Akron by KSU.

Just some hot stove league (or for basketball should it be icebox league) fodder for discussion.

The only BLSS Certified Hypocrite on BA

"It is better to be an optimist and be proven a fool than to be a pessimist and be proven right."

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FJC31
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/10/2026 11:48:58 AM

Considering it was reported that Miami, Toledo, and ourselves made a move on the SBC last year, I think it's inevitable that the MAC has a shakeup in the future.

We know Sac State and UMass are both short term additions for football purposes. Might as well shop yourself around if you're near the top of the conference.

giacomo
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/10/2026 11:49:34 AM

We are where we are because of escalating coaching salaries. The players understandably want to be compensated when their coach is making millions. UNC's new head coach is making 8.25M and they had to buy out Hubert Davis for millions. I understand. The NCAA and member institutions don't want to have players be employees and all that goes with it. Let them figure it out and they will not get a nickle from me. MAC schools and some fans may aspire to compete with the top of the P5 and good luck with that.

GoCats105
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/10/2026 12:29:32 PM

Quick question: how is this any different than what has happened in the past? There has always been a distinct line between those that care more about basketball than others, and it shows in the results. The real question would be are there any other schools looking to pull an NIU, where they focus so much more on football that they're willing to play in different conferences for football vs. everything else.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/10/2026 1:36:25 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

I think it's that the cost has increased. And it's done so for both basketball and football. Football comes with a TV deal that at least creates a carrot dangling a path to more revenue; basketball doesn't really. So I think the thesis here is that some schools are choosing to basically ignore basketball altogether while others increase spend. That widens the gap if the top's spending even more and the bottom even less.

Ohio69
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/10/2026 1:59:40 PM

Mid Majors should focus on basektball. Football will still bring in revenue. Just play two away P5 Games for $ every year.

Then spend the money on basketball. Conference championships and trips to the NCAA will build a brand and regional/national recognition way more than the Scooter's Coffee Frisco Bowl.

Can somebody hit a pull up jumper for me?.....

Victory
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/10/2026 6:55:59 PM

OhioCatFan wrote:

Below is a post from MACBBS.
Post: #125RE: MAC MBB Coaching Vacancies Just posting an informational article that concerns the MAC. https://herosports.com/cbb-john-groce-bi...eeze-ksks / Portion fron the article above: "Groce is stepping into a very winnable conference at a school that appears willing to invest at a higher level than many of its peers. Meanwhile, in the MAC, there is a growing sense that a line is forming between programs that are doubling down on men’s basketball and those that are not. As one MAC head coach put it, “There is a distinct line forming of those competing and those not in our league.”
That last line has left me wondering at our current rate where we will end up in this bifurcated MAC. At the moment we are in the top five or six, but unless we ante up and start putting the resources into the program like Miami, WMU and Toledo are reported to be doing, we could be in the initial phases of a decline into MAC obvilion. I don't want that to happen. As alumni we need to step up and try to help our athletic program. I'm not in a position to make a "transformative gift," but I can up my contributions, but there needs to be some coordination from the AD's office to facilitate increased giving for athletics on a board scale among alumni. I know the general rule in fundraising is to go after the big gifts first, but I think this situation may require a more grassroots approach.

Also, if we are truly heading toward a bifurcated MAC, this brings up questions of realignment. Should the top schools leave and setup a new conference with some other schools? Or, should the top schools attempt to drop the others from the conference? Or, will the low-level schools drop out of their own accord when they just can't compete? Tangentially related is that another poster on the MACBSS speculated that one reason Groce left for Charleston was speculation that he knew the next governor was planning to renew calls for the absorption of Akron by KSU.

Just some hot stove league (or for basketball should it be icebox league) fodder for discussion.

This really just makes the MAC normal. The absurd parity for 30+ years where the MAC was usually rated in the range of MVC and WCC because it had no bad teams rather than a top 40 team or two and the stability where nobody jumped ship made the MAC the oddball.

GraffZ06
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/11/2026 11:13:16 AM

Ohio69 wrote:

I swear I've heard this somewhere before :).

TWT
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/11/2026 4:29:57 PM

GoCats105 wrote:

I tend to agree as its the trend for a good number of years now. It was around the time that Akron moved from the level of a solid 18-20 win MAC team to become an annual contender with Kent State for the MAC title and the MAC tournament. 2008? 2010? 2012? Sometime in that period the gap began to grow between the top 4 or 5 MAC teams and the lower half of the conference. The change is that gap is now backed up by those in the top group paying players more than the have nots.

Most Memorable Bobcat Events Attended
2010 97-83 win over Georgetown in NCAA 1st round
2012 45-13 victory over ULM in the Independence Bowl
2015 34-3 drubbing of Fiami @ Peden with 25,086 fans
2023 10-7 near shutout of Iowa State @ Solich Field
2025 17-10 defeat of WVU @ Peden in front of 26,740

MonroeClassmate
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/11/2026 9:03:23 PM

Ohio69 wrote:

So you are saying that Akron's conference championship and three consecutive trips to the Dance has built a brand for the Zips regionally/nationally? Fat chance.

OHIO's football bowl run may or may not have built a regional/national brand but it is a heck of a lot better chance it did than the Zips basketball results.

I will take victories against Penn State on the road and WVU at home even though years apart as brand builders vs the Zips three trips to the Dance. Heck, the loss to OSU this year added to OHIO's brand for a very good two plus quarters of competitiveness that a number of other OSU opponents didn't show even two minutes of playing with Goliath.

NashvilleKat
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/11/2026 10:09:58 PM

Football definitely drives the bus in the college sports landscape. Our 7 straight bowl wins, 23-1 at home last 4 years, wins over WVU and Iowa State, has built real momentum for the program. Basketball really needs to step up and make the Convo a rocking place again.

GraffZ06
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/12/2026 10:46:53 AM

MonroeClassmate wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

There is something to be said for taking advantage of the opportunities in the national spotlight. For MAC teams, that's winning in the NCAA tourney.

Miami did it in 99 with Wally World. Kent did it in 02 with their Elite 8 run. We did it in 12 taking Carolina to OT in the Sweet 16. Buffalo did it in 18 with their national ranking and Sweet 16 run. Miami did it this year being undefeated, nationally ranked and winning a game. While not a LOT - that's 5 times in 27 years, or about once every 5 years. Imagine if we spent just a LITTLE bit more and actually prioritized basketball?

Certainly for all the success Akron has had, it hasn't translated to the Big Dance and that certainly has squandered some of the national buzz they could have capitalized on.

But please. Nobody outside of SE Ohio even remembers that OU beat WVA last year. And nobody outside Ohio remembers (or cares) that we "almost sorta kinda played with but didn't completely get blown out for a HALF by" OSU.

But I think we beat Kansas once. No no no, not the basketball team. The football team. Yeah, they still have a football team. With uniforms and everything.

We've made 7 bowls in a row? I put a question mark because I honestly don't know. Here's a fun fact. I couldn't even tell you the names of the Bowl games. I think there was something about a John Deere Tractor and a Bubba's BBQ in there somewhere. I do know we didn't play anybody from the P4 of relevance. Nobody outside of degenerate gamblers and the schools themselves (go check out bowl game attendance - and TV ratings) cares about bowl games played in the afternoon or evening of a weekday in mid December when everyone is either at work or preparing for Christmas.

The NCAA tournament matters so much because all you have to do is keep winning and you win the national championship. And about every 5 years the MAC has had a team make a serious run with a legitimate shot, playing decisive games leading up to a championship.

The Potato Bowl winner gets....a bowl of potatoes. Call me when the MAC puts a team in the BCS/CFP playoffs with a chance to play nationally relevant games leading up to a championship.

Last Edited: 4/12/2026 10:48:08 AM by GraffZ06

TWT
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/12/2026 1:50:51 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

MonroeClassmate wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

Ohio has not made 7 bowls in a row. They have made 4 bowls in a row but they've won the last 7 bowls they've appeared in which is the G6 record and crushed the old MAC record which was 3 consecutive bowl wins.

Ohio basketball had a good rep for non-conference wins then languishing in conference play when going on the road. The team has become more consistent relative to its talent level in a given year playing in-conference but the non-conference performance has dropped off.

A better MAC basketball team doesn't guarantee a sweet 16 but you'll land better non-conference wins and generate more interest during the regular season schedule. 11,000 fans turned out in The Convo for the final regular season game against Miami. Those fans didn't decide to wait until the MAC tournament or NCAA tournament to dial in.

The point is every phase of the season is worth cultivating for the exposure. Fans these days can look up past wins of previous seasons so that Ohio football win over West Virginia will be resonating for years. They can also easily find that game online to watch how it played out.

Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/12/2026 2:13:08 PM

GraffZ06 wrote:

There is something to be said for taking advantage of the opportunities in the national spotlight. For MAC teams, that's winning in the NCAA tourney.

The NCAA tournament matters so much because all you have to do is keep winning and you win the national championship. And about every 5 years the MAC has had a team make a serious run with a legitimate shot, playing decisive games leading up to a championship.

The Potato Bowl winner gets....a bowl of potatoes. Call me when the MAC puts a team in the BCS/CFP playoffs with a chance to play nationally relevant games leading up to a championship.

I tend to agree with you about the basketball vs. football debate. But I'm definitely biased by the fact that I just like basketball more.

But I think the framing here is basically that football offers a higher floor but lower ceiling, while basketball offers a much lower floor but higher ceiling.

There's a reality that football generates more revenue. The MAC's tv deal is bad (but up for renegotation) but the revenue it creates for member schools in 95% due to football. They should be able to negotiate a much better deal in the next iteration. If you look at the basketball budget, they generate ~50k annually from media rights.

And while it's true the NCAA tournament creates a path to eye balls and brand building for the university, football generates far more eyeballs in steady state than basketball does.

TWT
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/12/2026 3:42:33 PM

The argument the NCAA tournament does wonders for the school would be stronger if Ohio had never made it. The tournament wins haven't done very much for the university or the athletic perception of alumni for that matter. NCAA tournament has more of an impact at a private school where enrollment isn't as tied to in-state supply and demand.

M.D.W.S.T
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/13/2026 1:27:28 PM

TWT wrote:

Google �The Flutie Effect�

I think you'd find it enlightening.

BillyTheCat
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/13/2026 10:54:28 PM

Ohio69 wrote:

When was the last time we played 2 P5 teams for money games?

NashvilleKat
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/14/2026 12:11:47 AM

I hate to disagree with passionate Bobcat fans, but OU football is way more valuable than basketball. I'm a long time fan, having arrived in Athens in 1970, when basketball was exciting and we brought teams to the Convo like OSU and Indiana. Football was basically irrelevant and students left at halftime after the band played. I live in Nashville, and lots of people are familiar with OU football. From bowl games, weekday Maction, games against top rated opponents, MAC championship games etc. Not a person is really familiar with OU basketball. They got over 26k people for their game with WVU, and other than the Miami game, we were lucky to get 4k for a basketball game. The basketball team lost a home game to Bethune-Cookman for gosh sakes. Akron and Kent have been more successful than us in basketball, but their miserable football teams have been a big hindrance. Also, the time of year that the sports are played makes a big difference. Athens is a beautiful place in the late summer and fall, and miserable in the winter. Hopefully, Boals and company will step it up and get us back to where we're used to in Bobcat basketball. Just one old Bobcat's opinion.

Last Edited: 4/14/2026 12:14:00 AM by NashvilleKat

M.D.W.S.T
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/14/2026 9:03:58 AM

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

When was the last time we played 2 P5 teams for money games?

7 months ago?

GoCats105
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/14/2026 10:25:32 AM

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

When was the last time we played 2 P5 teams for money games?

7 months ago?

LOL.

And 2024
And 2022

Bobcat1996
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/14/2026 11:30:46 AM

NashvilleKat wrote:

Agree 100 per cent Nashville Kat!

Bobcat1996
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/14/2026 11:35:53 AM

MonroeClassmate wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

Agree MonroeC and throw in the very good win vs a solid Iowa St team at Solich Field a few years ago. The West Virginia win was great since many Mountaineer fans were in Athens to see them go down. However that WVU team in 2025 was not a very good team.

Bobcat1996
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/14/2026 11:49:44 AM

GoCats105 wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

When was the last time we played 2 P5 teams for money games?

7 months ago?

LOL.

And 2024
And 2022

In 2022 at Penn St was a money game, but the Iowa St game, they returned the trip. In 2024 the Kentucky game was a money game but Ohio played Syracuse a few years before in Athens so that was a return game for the Bobcats.

Victory
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/14/2026 8:39:29 PM

Bobcat1996 wrote:

GoCats105 wrote:

M.D.W.S.T wrote:

BillyTheCat wrote:

Ohio69 wrote:

When was the last time we played 2 P5 teams for money games?

7 months ago?

LOL.

And 2024
And 2022

I think 2006 was 2 games at high majors without a return game and was the last time that really counts. 1998 would have been, I think, the time prior to that. I think after the Solich era really got going and attendance got to be decent we never intentionally did that. Nearly every single year has been one payout road game, one payin home game, one home side of a home and home, and one road side of a home and home. The times that this didn't happen were related to COVID seasons affecting contracts and UC cancelling. The last game at UC was supposed to be the start of a home and home. UC ended up paying a penalty and buying that game so we unintentionally played 2 payout games forcing us to spend that money and buy two payin home games in 2026. If we play 2 away buy games we will necessarily play only 5 home games some year (unless we buy two home games another year like this year) and I think season ticket sales have been good enough over the last 20 years that they don't want to tick off long term customers with 5 home games.

Basketball can get away with having two buy games some years and buy other D1 games or play 2 non D1 games and then only play parts of home and home series other years other than one home non-D1 game. There are usually a couple of neural sites games and the number of home games, while very similar from year to year, isn't always EXACTLY the same number. Football doesn't really have these kind of options because there are so few non-conference games, so few FBS teams, and the money involved in buying or selling a game is so much more. I am sure the season ticket overall revenue is a lot more in football as well. They have to be very careful not to mess up the pattern hence the pattern is basically always:

1 home part of a home and home
1 road part of a home and home
1 road game paid for by a P4
1 home game against an FCS paid for by Ohio
4 home conference games
4 road conference games

which makes 6 home and 6 road games every season.

Last Edited: 4/14/2026 8:41:54 PM by Victory

The Optimist
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RE: Are we heading for a bifurcated MAC?

Posted: 4/15/2026 9:34:51 AM

Costs aren't going up, the dollar is going down.

I've seen crazier things happen.

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